Nursery plant of the year in 1988

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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby brill » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:32 pm

Greg, As regards your last post I agree with everything you said. In fact, when I was teaching many years ago I pushed to teach the issue of salinity before it was even common knowledge because I recognised the real danger to our land and farming industry. However, you cannot force change down people's throats. Try it and you will get rebellion, either outright rebellion or passive resistance. How old are your kids? Anyone who has had teenagers will know what I mean. But same principles apply to adults. You will have much more effect if you take into account what motivates people. That is what I meant by 'softly softly catchee monkee'. A strong leader still has to understand what makes people tick. We live in a democracy (thank God) not a fascist state. Unfortunately, you are starting to sound like a fascist.
As for your comment about the distribution network of a generic wholesale nursery. Greg I believe I know more about this than you. To the best of my knowledge there are NO wholesale nurseries distributing throughout Aust. The largest nursery in Aust is in WA and I believe the furtherest it sends to is Vic & SA. Freighting plants is quite expensive and retailers & chains balk at paying it so most tend to try to source plants as local as possible (which is a good thing for the environment because it reduces pollution). Most nurseries may ship into a neighbouring state if they are close enough and some even further if they are cheap enough for the onseller to include the cost, or if they have something that can't be got elsewhere but in general distribution is relatively local.
Glad to here others aren't convinced by the carbon trading con. I also suspected it was a way for big business to make it look as though they were 'doing the right thing' while still carrying on as usual. Any way, if a tree has to be over a certain height to qualify it will be centuries before they have any affect.
I have always had doubts about global warming because when I was younger we were also told we were heading for a mini ice age and that it would warm up first, and that it was a natural cycle. I also remembered my history lessons on the industrial revolution and the pollution created then and wondered why that didn't cause global warming. I also remember that Greenland and other cold countries were once green and warm (the vikings settled there centuries ago) and that there is evidence the ocean was once higher than it is today. So obviously the temperature of the world fluctuates dramatically. Yes the world is getting warmer (we were told it would happen) and I agree we do have to consider the environment and our effect on it, but I suspect the global warming scare was a means for weather and climate researchers to secure funding, because they got very little before. And this sort of thing DOES happen.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:14 pm

brill wrote:Try it and you will get rebellion, either outright rebellion or passive resistance. How old are your kids? Anyone who has had teenagers will know what I mean. But same principles apply to adults. You will have much more effect if you take into account what motivates people. That is what I meant by 'softly softly catchee monkee'. A strong leader still has to understand what makes people tick. We live in a democracy (thank God) not a fascist state. Unfortunately, you are starting to sound like a fascist.

We all know that the pace of change will be some where between what I would advocate and what my opponents would advocate. But unless my side ups the anty and starts playing hard ball then we may as well just forget the whole thing and go back to our Cottoneasters. There will be simply not be enough left to bother trying to save. I figure it is a bit like the union strategy of bidding for something rediculous in order to get something reasonable.

The exotic dominated horticultural estbalishment very much plays hard ball, when they are challenged, and their pervasive marketing currently holds the attention of the masses. They are in effect the strong leader when it comes to environmental weeds. Bit like the oil companies having the power to regulate petrol prices. That is how I see the current predicament anyway - in my mind it certainly explains why changes are so excruciatingly slow.

I cannot see that "softly softly" is going to effectively break their hold on that power. But there is nothing like a crisis to break the incumbent's hold on power and to take the masses off in a new direction with a new leader. That doesn't mean I believe that they should be entirely excluded, merely that there monopoly on power be broken.

The masses will simply follow the leader with the strongest and most steadfast stance, and the most effective marketing campaign. That is one of the fundamentals of human behaviour and the behaviour of the masses cannot be significantly changed without this at the centre of the strategy. Case in point Al Gore and climate change.

brill wrote:As for your comment about the distribution network of a generic wholesale nursery. Greg I believe I know more about this than you. To the best of my knowledge there are NO wholesale nurseries distributing throughout Aust.

I will concede on that. Throughout a state or region then?
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby mousiehousie » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:09 pm

I am sorry that I am not a native plant lover. I lost my home and all my possessions in Canberras firestorm in 2003 I SAW what native plants planted around a home do . I also saw that the least damage was caused by exotics. As far as I am concerned [ at the expense of treading on toes ] , let the natives stay in the bush It always amuses me to see around here that Cootamundra Wattle is called a weed They say it doesn't belong in this area. Who told nature where to draw the finish line ?
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Mister Wisteria » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:50 pm

I am very sorry about the loss of your house Mousiehouse, I was with the Coroner's Department during Ash Wednesday and also saw what burns the quickest, the Australian Bush (natives) do not stand up to fire very well. Most of so called exotic's are not as dry and are slower to burn, they are less likely to burst into fireballs as do the natives. We learnt some lessons from Ash Wednesday, some very hard lessons, however, a drive through the Dandenongs will soon reveal some people are still yet to learn. I am amazed to see tall dry bush right up to peoples homes, they wouldn't have a chance in a fire. The wise people keep the areas around their homes clear and have low level gardens that will not fuel a fire, along with sprinklers etc. You can still have your natives and good old Aussie bush and enjoy them, just keep them a safe distant from your home.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:00 pm

Very sorry to hear that Mousiehusie, I have friends in ACT who just escaped damage, and I too remember 1983. The local planning Dept. here have placed Wildfire Management Overlays over most of the Shire to try and prevent new houses from that scenario and insist on at least a 40 meter buffer around housing envelopes (obviously on rural/bush blocks not town ones). Each new application must have an Enviro.Management Plan that must be approved by CFA first. When designing a new property as part of an EMP I alway try to place the wastewater field in the fire sector as well as deciduous orchards/vegie gardens so that if there is a major fire the house has more chance of survival. There are few native plants that are as fire resistant as deciduous plants, Myoporum insulare is one exception, but it aint very nice to look at! So there is room for both as far as I can see.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:43 pm

mousiehousie wrote:I am sorry that I am not a native plant lover. I lost my home and all my possessions in Canberras firestorm in 2003 I SAW what native plants planted around a home do . I also saw that the least damage was caused by exotics. As far as I am concerned [ at the expense of treading on toes ] , let the natives stay in the bush It always amuses me to see around here that Cootamundra Wattle is called a weed They say it doesn't belong in this area. Who told nature where to draw the finish line ?

As far a large Eucalypts, some wattles and some Allocasurina, among others, I agree with you. Large Eucs have no place in the average size garden as they are just to dangerous if they come down or if they burn. I find some wattles and some Allocasurina rather ugly myself and would never use them in landscapes (unless requested).

But I return to the point that there is so much more to native flora than large Eucs and messy wattles - Bulbine Lilies, Chocolate Lilies, Peleroniums, Native Bluebells, Hardenbergia violacea, Billy Buttons, Lomandra longifolia,........the list goes on an on without a Eucalypt or wattle in sight or anything above waist height. No use looking in your average garden centre because you wont find them. Try your nearest specialist native or indigenous nurseries. Try Kuranga, I think they have mail order.

I will also point out that a native garden looks as good or is as much of a fire risk as the effort you put into its maintenance and the appropriateness of the species you choose for the amount of maintenance you are prepared to put in.

And Eucs are no more flammable than the Cyperus many like to use as hedges or screens in their gardens. Remember the hedge arsonist around the well to do suburbs in Melbourne????

If it was just Cootamundra Wattle then I seriously doubt that many conservationists (including me) would be making such a rucous about this issue. The problem is that it is Cootamundra Wattle combined with thousands of other weeds assaulting and wiping out remnant native flora, and in some cases our fauna (was reading about one example a while ago but I have forgotten the details).

Hope this helps.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:02 pm

I have to agree with Greg on one of point. Cyperus is extremely flammable. But I think most Casurinas and Allocasurinas are about as sexy as Australian trees can get; beautiful form, lovely dark bark, the sound of wind whistling through them is wonderful and make a vey funk windbreak on larger properties. I use them all the time.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:12 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:I have to agree with Greg on one of point. Cyperus is extremely flammable. But I think most Casurinas and Allocasurinas are about as sexy as Australian trees can get; beautiful form, lovely dark bark, the sound of wind whistling through them is wonderful and make a vey funk windbreak on larger properties. I use them all the time.
Phil

I quite like Allocasurina littoralis - they usually look quite green and dense, but I am not really a fan of Allocasurina verticillata as they look to drab, grey and spindly.

I am a big fan of Indigofera australis, local form of Hardenbergia violacea, Wahlenbergia communis and I think Tasmania lanceolata and Pomaderris lanigera are to die for.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:28 pm

Lomandra 'tanika', Dianella revoluta/curulea(?), Arthropodium spp., Acacia retinodes, Euc. tricarpa, Viminaria juncea, Croea exalata.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:05 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:Lomandra 'tanika', Dianella revoluta/curulea(?), Arthropodium spp., Acacia retinodes, Euc. tricarpa, Viminaria juncea, Croea exalata.

Any idea where Crowea exalata and Lomandra "tanika" originate from? I use the latter a lot because I like the contrast in foliage between it and local Lomandra longifolia.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Pam » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:45 pm

boylesg wrote:Any idea where ... Lomandra "tanika" originate from?


Apparently it was the result of deliberately accumulating a variety of forms of L. longifolia from around the country and selecting desirous forms from amongst the resultant seedlings.

There's a Gardening Australia fact sheet here:

http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s1588395.htm
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:18 am

Pam wrote:
boylesg wrote:Any idea where ... Lomandra "tanika" originate from?


Apparently it was the result of deliberately accumulating a variety of forms of L. longifolia from around the country and selecting desirous forms from amongst the resultant seedlings.

There's a Gardening Australia fact sheet here:

http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s1588395.htm

You do need to be cautious about hybridisation like this. The Hurstbridge form of Grevillea rosmarinifolia is now largely extinct in the wild due to hybridisation of wild populations with Aus native Grevillea in local gardens. The only plants you generally find now are the mongrels.

But in the grand scheme of things a hybrid Lomandra longifolia escaping into the wild would probably be less harmful than what is escaping into the bush at present. At least this is an in-species hybrid and the progeny is still essentially Lomandra longifolia. If this was the worst that we had to worry about then we would be in a so much better position. Can't say that about the Grevillea mongrels though.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:21 pm

Crowea exalata has various provenances from around the central Goldfields area Bendigo/Heathcote to Kamarooka areas. There is also a white form but don't know where from.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:32 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:Crowea exalata has various provenances from around the central Goldfields area Bendigo/Heathcote to Kamarooka areas. There is also a white form but don't know where from.

Well there you go, I had assumed it was not a Victorian species. Always something new to learn.
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