Nursery plant of the year in 1988

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Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:56 pm

This is just to illistrate how far we have to come, as a society, on the issue of environmental weeds.

Anyone heard of Cape or Montpellier Broom (Genista monspessulana)? This was declared by NGIA, or possibly its predecessor if it didn't exist back then (not sure), as nursery plant of the year in 1988.

By 1994 it was listed as a noxious weed under the Victorian Catchment and Land Protection Act. Its taxonomic sibbling Genista linifolia or Flax Leaf Broom is also listed as a noxious weed under the CaLP Act.

There is another species of Genista, currently being sold widely by retail nurseries, that is already an environmental weed and is expected to join the ranks of Victorian noxious weeds at some point in the future.

My question is this.

Is it wise to wait until such plants have indeed spread to the point of being necessarily declared as noxious weeds, at which point there is little or no hope of erradicating them, and millions of public dollars must be spent annually, by public land managers with statutory responsibilities to control noxious weeds, on controlling and containing them?

Or is it far wiser to urr on the side of caution and halt their sale and distibution now, when there is some hope of erradicating them entirely at relatively little expense. Especially when there are myriads of native and local native alternatives to Genista that look just as good by anyone's judgement and as easy to grow, e.g. Goodia lotifolia.

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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:09 pm

Who is powerful enough to declare what is desirable enough for all and what is not?
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:29 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:Who is powerful enough to declare what is desirable enough for all and what is not?

Informed governments in this case. They are always being critiscised for not 'leading'. Perhaps on this issue they could take on a leadership role. We collectively accept their leadership role on plants like Opium Poppies and marijuana, despite the many advocates of them. If the government legalised these drugs then the current outcast growers would soon become respected businessmen.

The only difference is that, for Opium and marijuana, public perceptions of these plants and drugs derived from them, have been actively and successfully influenced by public education campaigns. Education campaigns have not yet sufficiently influenced the general public so that it widely accepts that environmental weeds are something to be concerned about. But if and when they do then current beligerant growers of such plants will likewise become society outcasts.

And like I said, in this case there are hundreds of native plants to choose from and no doubt many more safe exotic species to as well. If you don't like this particular alternative then simply choose another one.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Kerrie » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:12 pm

I was unaware that these varieties of broom were now listed as noxious weeds - I grew up loving the colour of broom in my Nanna's yard and it was always in the back of my mind as a landscaping plant... guess I'll be looking up one of those alternatives instead!

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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Lin » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:13 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:Who is powerful enough to declare what is desirable enough for all and what is not?


I don't think it's a question of what is desirable or not, it's more like "what is going to cost the taxpayer money in the future to clear up out of our waterways and off our farmland because it has become a problem"
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:47 pm

Lin wrote:
Phil Hansen wrote:Who is powerful enough to declare what is desirable enough for all and what is not?


I don't think it's a question of what is desirable or not, it's more like "what is going to cost the taxpayer money in the future to clear up out of our waterways and off our farmland because it has become a problem"

Noxious weeds are a sub-set of environmental weeds that are sufficiently bad to cause agriculturalists and pastoralists significant economic loss. The longer it takes to act on and environmental weed the more likely it is that it will become the next generation of noxious weeds.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby brill » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:47 pm

Haven't we come a long way since 1988. You're right about many plants introduced in the past becoming weeds and I am not foolish enough to think that no more will slip through the net. However the modern nursery industry is very conscious of preventing the introduction of potential pests. And with modern science and bio security it hopes to prevent it happening. However, again we have to be realistic. It probably will because there are unscrupulous and/or uncaring people out there. Not every grower is a member of the Nursery Industry Association. It is not compulsory to join so there are no governmental controls on what is grown or how a nursery operates. Not only that, anyone can join if they pay the fee (and are legally entitled to force the issue if their application is knocked back) so even the nursery industry can't regulate. What the nursery industry can do and has done is set up a voluntary scheme of accreditation. A NIASA accredited nursery has proved to the association that they are operating at best practice standards (Eg use as little water as possible, use hygienic practices, correct chemical storage & use, to name a few areas). A EcoHort accredited nursery is one that is NIASA accredited but has also taken and continues to take steps to prevent environmental damage on their and neighbouring properties. The industry has just begun a scheme of Bio Security accreditation. Because it is brand new I'm unsure on the exact details but I believe it will cover transfer of pests & diseases and introduction of plant pests.We are both NIASA & EcoHort accredited and will be aiming for Bio Security accreditation too. So as you can see the nursery industry is aware of issues and is trying to do something about them, but they can't force people to conform. Accredited nurseries are aware of their responsibilities, to themselves, their customers, the environment and society. The big problems are the backyarders and flea markets. Very few of them care. Get rid of them and make everyone be accredited and there will be a much better chance of controlling pest plants.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:24 pm

brill wrote:Haven't we come a long way since 1988. You're right about many plants introduced in the past becoming weeds and I am not foolish enough to think that no more will slip through the net. However the modern nursery industry is very conscious of preventing the introduction of potential pests. And with modern science and bio security it hopes to prevent it happening. However, again we have to be realistic. It probably will because there are unscrupulous and/or uncaring people out there. Not every grower is a member of the Nursery Industry Association. It is not compulsory to join so there are no governmental controls on what is grown or how a nursery operates. Not only that, anyone can join if they pay the fee (and are legally entitled to force the issue if their application is knocked back) so even the nursery industry can't regulate. What the nursery industry can do and has done is set up a voluntary scheme of accreditation. A NIASA accredited nursery has proved to the association that they are operating at best practice standards (Eg use as little water as possible, use hygienic practices, correct chemical storage & use, to name a few areas). A EcoHort accredited nursery is one that is NIASA accredited but has also taken and continues to take steps to prevent environmental damage on their and neighbouring properties. The industry has just begun a scheme of Bio Security accreditation. Because it is brand new I'm unsure on the exact details but I believe it will cover transfer of pests & diseases and introduction of plant pests.We are both NIASA & EcoHort accredited and will be aiming for Bio Security accreditation too. So as you can see the nursery industry is aware of issues and is trying to do something about them, but they can't force people to conform. Accredited nurseries are aware of their responsibilities, to themselves, their customers, the environment and society. The big problems are the backyarders and flea markets. Very few of them care. Get rid of them and make everyone be accredited and there will be a much better chance of controlling pest plants.
Brill :?

Brill I agree entirely that things in the retail nursery sector are improving, due to a considerable extent to organisations like Sustainable Gardening Australia and to vigilent and caring Department of Primary Industry officers.

I suspect the standards on such environmental issues such as chemicals and site run-off are of a generally high standard but the standards on invasive plants are still in need of considerable improvement. This due partly to the very poor general awareness of environmental weeds, compared to the conservation sector, and also due to a general reticence to accept that 'invasiveness' is a serious an issue as chemicals and run-off. There is clear evidence of that among the many angry responses to my 'diatribes'.

This is to be expected I suppose because a chemical spill produces and very immediate and very noticable environmental effect. Environmental weeds inevitably require a period of time, to produce a clearly noticable impact, often longer than the lifespan of the proprietors. But you what they say....if you don't learn from history then you are condemned to repeat it.

I might add that, until several years ago, I was a medical scientists and then computer programmer living in blissful ignorance about this issue. But after working in the conservation sector for a few years I soon gained a new and devestating perspective as I discovered how much of our natural landscapes consist of introduced plants and how little of our native flora remains. For me it is partly an issue of patriotism.

Backyard operators are by far the biggest culprits in selling declared noxious weeds as well as other environmental weeds. But their distribution networks are miniscule so the real impact they have is likewise miniscule.

Retail nurseries and garden centres are very unlikely to be selling declared noxious weeds but I regularly find known environmental weeds and known 'sleeper' weeds among their stock. However their massive distribution networks means that the few environmental weeds they do sell can have a very significant environmental impact across the state or the nation.

I believe the federal government has a weed risk assesment process for introduced plants however I don't think that it can legally veto the importation of exotic plants if those plants fail the assesment. So its a bit of a toothless tiger in its current form.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby The Estate » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:36 pm

Backyard operators are by far the biggest culprits in selling declared noxious weeds as well as other environmental weeds. But their distribution networks are miniscule so the real impact they have is likewise miniscule.


would like to know a few examples here ?? Are you talking about the general person who is trading plants for sale at their home, local trash 'n' treasure, or also ebay :?:

Have you and or org. you belong to have proof of such goings on , would love to hear.

:idea: :?: :?: do you consider seaside daisy a weed ?? sorry don't now the longggggggggggggg name, but most members here would know what I am talking about :-? , beauganvillia, (sp) frangapanis, (must install firefox) :mrgreen: , johnny jump ups, alyssum to name a few, for those of us who live in the burbs and like a bit of colour after coming home from rather a deary day at the office, and yes our gardens which are far and few between in the burbs ,gives other delight to look at whilst they walk their dogs at night and pooped on my nature strip :twisted:
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Pam » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:43 pm

boylesg wrote:Retail nurseries and garden centres are very unlikely to be selling declared noxious weeds but I regularly find known environmental weeds and known 'sleeper' weeds among their stock. However their massive distribution networks means that the few environmental weeds they do sell can have a very significant environmental impact across the state or the nation.



Actually, Greg, you'd be surprised. On numerous occasions I have come accross class 1 declared plants in retail nurseries.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:51 pm

Pam wrote:
boylesg wrote:Retail nurseries and garden centres are very unlikely to be selling declared noxious weeds but I regularly find known environmental weeds and known 'sleeper' weeds among their stock. However their massive distribution networks means that the few environmental weeds they do sell can have a very significant environmental impact across the state or the nation.



Actually, Greg, you'd be surprised. On numerous occasions I have come accross class 1 declared plants in retail nurseries.

Mmmm. I'd be interested to know which nurseries but I suppose it would be suicidal to divulge that in here. If retail nurseries can't even get that right then what hope have we got with general environmental weeds. At least the law is not a toothless tiger with them. I hope you reported them to DPI, or what ever your state equivalent is.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby brill » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:07 pm

Unfortunately not all retail nurseries are vigilant or even care, and not all are accredited. (different set of accreditation criteria for retail nurseries to production nurseries, but knowleable/trained staff is part of the criteria) The nursery industry has distributed info on pest plants but there is no guarantee it was read by all concerned. Ignorance is a problem and as I said there are some unscrupulous operators. I've seen pest plants in the big box (none of their stores are in the association and therefore are not accredited) If you are in a nursery and see pest plants and that nursery is accredited notify the association. They probably won't lose their accreditation but they will definately be notified to 'pull their socks up'. I also would not like to see all the pretty flowering shrubs disappear. And even though I love natives I would not like every garden to be native - how boring!
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:14 pm

The Estate wrote:
Backyard operators are by far the biggest culprits in selling declared noxious weeds as well as other environmental weeds. But their distribution networks are miniscule so the real impact they have is likewise miniscule.


would like to know a few examples here ?? Are you talking about the general person who is trading plants for sale at their home, local trash 'n' treasure, or also ebay :?:

Have you and or org. you belong to have proof of such goings on , would love to hear.

:idea: :?: :?: do you consider seaside daisy a weed ?? sorry don't now the longggggggggggggg name, but most members here would know what I am talking about :-? , beauganvillia, (sp) frangapanis, (must install firefox) :mrgreen: , johnny jump ups, alyssum to name a few, for those of us who live in the burbs and like a bit of colour after coming home from rather a deary day at the office, and yes our gardens which are far and few between in the burbs ,gives other delight to look at whilst they walk their dogs at night and pooped on my nature strip :twisted:

Seaside Daisy is an environmental weed in the Blue Mountains, NSW. Look it up on http://www.weeds.org.au for yourself. Here is the link my search produced: http://www.weedsbluemountains.org.au/seaside_daisy.asp

Do you have any Gaura lindhiemeri / Butterfly Bush? Or Penniseteum setaceum / Fountain Grass? Both are declared noxious weeds in NSW but legal in Victoria. So a NSW resident can drive over the border, legally purchase these plants and then take them back into NSW where they are illegal. Pretty stupid huh? Especially when areas in NSW have been cleared of these weeds, having cost tax payers tens of thousands of dollars, only to have them re-infested in the process.

beauganvillia, (sp) frangapanis, not to my knowledge.

Look them and the rest up on http://www.weeds.org.au if you really want to know.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby brill » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm

Can't work out how to do a quote but I meant to say something about your comment that flea markets have limited distribution. That is not true they have as big if not bigger distribution as retail nurseries. People drive for miles to go to markets . They don't do that for a nursery unless it is a specialist nursery or a 'destination' nursery'. And not only that, many of the sellers at markets go to multiple markets sometimes up to 50klms apart, or have people go for them (can't be in 2 places at once). They are the curse of the nursery industry and do pose a big problem to bio security.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby The Estate » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:24 pm

brill wrote:Unfortunately not all retail nurseries are vigilant or even care, and not all are accredited. (different set of accreditation criteria for retail nurseries to production nurseries, but knowleable/trained staff is part of the criteria) The nursery industry has distributed info on pest plants but there is no guarantee it was read by all concerned. Ignorance is a problem and as I said there are some unscrupulous operators. I've seen pest plants in the big box (none of their stores are in the association and therefore are not accredited) If you are in a nursery and see pest plants and that nursery is accredited notify the association. They probably won't lose their accreditation but they will definately be notified to 'pull their socks up'. I also would not like to see all the pretty flowering shrubs disappear. And even though I love natives I would not like every garden to be native - how boring!
Brill


Okies Brill, what do you have in your garden ?? would love to see pics ect.....


and another :?: even if the nurs. are credited , how is it mon. when these people who charge to get this creditation decided when they are not busy and call in, if it is like most insdustry they get a ph. okies your uner review :shock: ect..... and also to greg. where are your front and back yard pics of what your doing where you reside :shock: or are you just a forumite who likes to be a pest, if not what about the things you have already achieved perhaps :roll: before and after shots maybe , or maybe a few community things you may be involved with, nit just sitting at you pooter and tappin out word, my mother always said actions speak better that words , especially when done in bad form :?
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:25 pm

brill wrote:Unfortunately not all retail nurseries are vigilant or even care, and not all are accredited. (different set of accreditation criteria for retail nurseries to production nurseries, but knowleable/trained staff is part of the criteria) The nursery industry has distributed info on pest plants but there is no guarantee it was read by all concerned. Ignorance is a problem and as I said there are some unscrupulous operators. I've seen pest plants in the big box (none of their stores are in the association and therefore are not accredited) If you are in a nursery and see pest plants and that nursery is accredited notify the association. They probably won't lose their accreditation but they will definately be notified to 'pull their socks up'. I also would not like to see all the pretty flowering shrubs disappear. And even though I love natives I would not like every garden to be native - how boring!
Brill

Like I have previously said....

I have never stated that all exotic plants should be pulled. I am really not that much of a weed "Hitler" and, at any rate, know full well that that could never be acheived, and would in fact be disasterous for Australia given that all our staple foods come from exotic plants. I am however an advocate of replacing as many of them as possible with native foods in response to the ongoing drought.

I admit that I am very much a 'native chauvinist' and perhaps that gives people the wrong impression that I believe all exotic plants should be banned. No just the ones that are and have a good chance of infringing on my right, and those of my kids, to enjoy our native flora.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:29 pm

brill wrote:Can't work out how to do a quote but I meant to say something about your comment that flea markets have limited distribution. That is not true they have as big if not bigger distribution as retail nurseries. People drive for miles to go to markets . They don't do that for a nursery unless it is a specialist nursery or a 'destination' nursery'. And not only that, many of the sellers at markets go to multiple markets sometimes up to 50klms apart, or have people go for them (can't be in 2 places at once). They are the curse of the nursery industry and do pose a big problem to bio security.
Brill

Do you really think that the average flea market seller can distribute as many plants over as wide a geographic area as say Bunnings Warehouse????? Not that I am implying that Bunnings Warehouse sells noxious weeds??????
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Mister Wisteria » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:40 pm


Actually, Greg, you'd be surprised. On numerous occasions I have come accross class 1 declared plants in retail nurseries.


I agree with you Pam and they are not hard to find,but there again I'm not sure I see the problem. If there was such a problem we would be over run with the so called "Weeds" and we are not. Most people use their common sense, of course there are some problem weeds and in some area's they are a serious problem. In my experience being "Lectured" with "Overkill" just makes people turn their back defeating the whole purpose of the exercise. I for one have had more than enough of "WEEEDS" for a long long time. I'm just a humble gardener who cares for my own garden and the enviroment in my own way, I don't need to be Lectured. :D
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:43 pm

The Estate wrote:
brill wrote:Unfortunately not all retail nurseries are vigilant or even care, and not all are accredited. (different set of accreditation criteria for retail nurseries to production nurseries, but knowleable/trained staff is part of the criteria) The nursery industry has distributed info on pest plants but there is no guarantee it was read by all concerned. Ignorance is a problem and as I said there are some unscrupulous operators. I've seen pest plants in the big box (none of their stores are in the association and therefore are not accredited) If you are in a nursery and see pest plants and that nursery is accredited notify the association. They probably won't lose their accreditation but they will definately be notified to 'pull their socks up'. I also would not like to see all the pretty flowering shrubs disappear. And even though I love natives I would not like every garden to be native - how boring!
Brill


Okies Brill, what do you have in your garden ?? would love to see pics ect.....


and another :?: even if the nurs. are credited , how is it mon. when these people who charge to get this creditation decided when they are not busy and call in, if it is like most insdustry they get a ph. okies your uner review :shock: ect..... and also to greg. where are your front and back yard pics of what your doing where you reside :shock: or are you just a forumite who likes to be a pest, if not what about the things you have already achieved perhaps :roll: before and after shots maybe , or maybe a few community things you may be involved with, nit just sitting at you pooter and tappin out word, my mother always said actions speak better that words , especially when done in bad form :?

Easily remedied.
But in short I have something like 20% general Australian native plants and 80% local native plants. The landscapes I create usually have around the same mix.

I have a particular fondness for some of the WA native plants, like Banksia and Lechenaultia, and some of the native plants from the Victorian Mallee, like Damperia purpurea. But many of the local species are just as good and a great deal more reliable in the Melbourne region.

Actions speak louder than words....Why do you think I started my landscape business? Why do you think I tap away at my computer on these forums? Why do you think I spent several months reporting noxious weed plant items on ebay and harassing ebay Australia management about them, with the end result that they changed their policy so that you are not permitted to sell a plant if it is a declared noxious weed any where in Australia?

It not for personal gain. Well my landscape business is but for personal gain while trying to make a difference. Given my annual profit is around $10,000 per year, at present, you can't possibly accuse me of being entirely motivated by money. That's why I still work in the conservation sector for another company....also to maintain the skills I have developed.
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Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:50 pm

Mister Wisteria wrote:
I agree with you Pam and they are not hard to find,but there again I'm not sure I see the problem. If there was such a problem we would be over run with the so called "Weeds" and we are not. Most people use their common sense, of course there are some problem weeds and in some area's they are a serious problem. In my experience being "Lectured" with "Overkill" just makes people turn their back defeating the whole purpose of the exercise. I for one have had more than enough of "WEEEDS" for a long long time. I'm just a humble gardener who cares for my own garden and the enviroment in my own way, I don't need to be Lectured. :D

Spend a week with me at sites around Melbourne I have worked at regularly and I think you quickly see the problem and realise just how overrun with environmental weeds we really are. You can't possibly perceive the problem from your backyard or driving past in the car. Only by getting down on your hands and knees and trying to prevent Chilean Needle Grass and Serrated Tussock and Gazania from swamping tiny patches of remnant flora. Or by chainsawing out massive box thorn and gorse infestations or brushcutting vast fields of Cape Broom in an attempt to stop them seeding.

There is a great deal more to native flora than Gum Trees and Wattles - they represent a tiny percentage of the diversity we actually have, are loosing fast or have lost.
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