Nursery plant of the year in 1988

What is a weed? Opinions vary depending on perspective, climate and individual awareness but rational discussion can lead to better understanding. However, be warned that though this can be an emotive issue with strongly held views being aired, common courtesy and an acceptance that opinions and circumstances may differ is required of all participants.

Moderators: Forum_mod, Pam, Luzy, jack, Sam, midgin

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby bubba louie » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:05 pm

with the end result that they changed their policy so that you are not permitted to sell a plant if it is a declared noxious weed any where in Australia?
====================
Are Ipomoea alba and Asclepias physocarpa declared?
“Just living is not enough... One must have sunshine, freedom, and a little flower.”
Hans Christian Andersen
User avatar
bubba louie
Garden Wizard
 
Posts: 6803
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:23 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:19 pm

bubba louie wrote:with the end result that they changed their policy so that you are not permitted to sell a plant if it is a declared noxious weed any where in Australia?
====================
Are Ipomoea alba and Asclepias physocarpa declared?


http://www.weeds.org.au

I know about the status of a respectible number of exotic and Aus native species but I don't have an ecyclopaedic knowledge.
You folks can look them up just as easily as I can. Make this a habit and you can't really go wrong.

Alternatively post a question to the enviroweeds email forum.
Gregary Boyles
User avatar
boylesg
Curator
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Epping

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Lin » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:53 pm

brill wrote:Can't work out how to do a quote but I meant to say something about your comment that flea markets have limited distribution. That is not true they have as big if not bigger distribution as retail nurseries. People drive for miles to go to markets . They don't do that for a nursery unless it is a specialist nursery or a 'destination' nursery'. And not only that, many of the sellers at markets go to multiple markets sometimes up to 50klms apart, or have people go for them (can't be in 2 places at once). They are the curse of the nursery industry and do pose a big problem to bio security.
Brill

A couple of points here Brill:
As a some-time stallholder I have been visited at home and at the market by the DPI. They have been helpful and informative and seem to be trying to educate the sellers of the potential dangers posed by some plants - they are certainly more sympathetic to the small sellers than you are.
Not all people selling plants at markets are "backyarders" - at our local Sunday market the majority of the plant stalls are run by wholesalers who want an extra outlet for their plants, some using it as an opportunity to clear the stock that they can't sell to their regular customers. Of the remainder only one or two would propagate plants themselves (myself included), the rest buy from wholesalers and re-sell.
Most of the customers I dealt with were local people - I don't know of anyone who drove for miles to get to us... well no further than they would have to drive to visit a nursery anyway.... and we were cheaper... oh wait, maybe that's why we are the "curse of the nursery industry" :D
User avatar
Lin
Garden Wizard
 
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: Bellarine Peninsula, Victoria

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby belladonna » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:57 pm

I have never stated that all exotic plants should be pulled. I am really not that much of a weed "Hitler" and, at any rate, know full well that that could never be acheived, and would in fact be disasterous for Australia given that all our staple foods come from exotic plants. I am however an advocate of replacing as many of them as possible with native foods in response to the ongoing drought.


ok but what you are saying if I am reading it right is plants should not be allowed to be planted which will go on to become a problem.My question is this how can this be predicticted?You sound like there is a paranoid big brother with a hidden agenda trying to populate Australia with OMG exotic plants.
My favourite gardening quote is one from the Secret Garden by Francis Hodgson Burnett ....."If you look the right way the whole world is a garden". Surely there is room in my garden for something from elsewhere in the world.We are gardeners therefore we actually care about our surrounds and I take exception at you constantly lambasting people who may grow something banned else where.While something may be banned in a state and available for sale in another will mean bringing it into the state would be ILLEGAL and I am sure 99% of people would not break the law to grow such things.Can I suggest you go outside and take your latent anger out on some autumn pruning.
The glory of the garden: hands in the dirt,
head in the sun,heart with nature.
To nurture a garden is to feed
not just the body ,but the soul.
Alfred Austin 1835-1913
User avatar
belladonna
Senior Curator
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:16 pm
Location: Northern York Peninsula South Australia

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby The Estate » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:59 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: well saod Lin Like us here on GE are going effect the ecom. because we swap plants :shock: , only way itwill efect GE if we stay her for 5 years plus and divided our plants up :shock: :idea: :idea:
The Estate
Garden Wizard
 
Posts: 14753
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:52 am

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:08 pm

The Estate wrote:
boylesg wrote:
The Estate wrote:It is called the bull and the china shop, you made be very passionate about what you are doing, but unfort. you are going it about the wrong way and reg. members wont read your posts :oops:

I have never been a coprorate smoocher and nor would I ever again try to be something I am just not. I tried my hand in the corporate world as a computer programmer and lasted a few years before I was sick of them and they were sick of me. All I can do is to make the best of my blunt character and live with the few enemies I may make along the way.

I may have raised the ire of a quite a few people in here but none the less there is now a dedicated forum on my pet subject, I have the attention of quite a few of you and have clearly won over a small number of people. Pretty good start as far as I am concerned.



fair enough , I dont kiss anyones ass :evil: , never will and dont work as a high flyer in what ever you consider okies in your area, most of us here on the forum are prob . middle class areas which I hate to admit, we love our garden and dont really give a crappolla to someone who come's along with shootin his mouth off, it is called timing, if you want too tell us of how you feel, no probs but feel out the new envoiroment that you are in , suss then out first, not the bull at the gate, coz you will lots of remarks and then you may have a few more post remarks about what your trying to say, maybe put it into your own words rather than C % P :roll: All I'm try inf to say Greg your diggin your own hole :|

My underlying intention is not to crap on people about this issue. Although I admit I have resorted to really crapping on people who have crapped on me else where.

Perhaps the fact that I have been raising the issue at every conceivable post and my blunt character revealing itself in my writing gives people the impression that I am crapping on them. My intention is to try and pursuade via reasoned argument with at least some attempt at providing some backing evidence. My post in response to TropicGardeners unreasoned dismisal of my argument was merely an attempt to place his comments in a unfavourable context using Prickly Pear as and example. If I was explicitly crapping on him I would not have hestitated to throw in some personal insults.
Gregary Boyles
User avatar
boylesg
Curator
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Epping

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:11 pm

Reasoned argument is not something that has appeared in any of you dialogue to date. I will wait patiently.
PHIL HANSEN

Dyslexics are teople poo
Phil Hansen
Curator
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: Castlemaine (Vic)

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby The Estate » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:15 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:Reasoned argument is not something that has appeared in any of you dialogue to date. I will wait patiently.



are you a patience man :-?
The Estate
Garden Wizard
 
Posts: 14753
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:52 am

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:19 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:Reasoned argument is not something that has appeared in any of you dialogue to date. I will wait patiently.
Possibly because your own ideology prevents you from accepting the mounting evidence and changing your stance accordingly - very common in politics. But you will not discourage me from continuing the debate with you.

Like I said....there are a lot of people that matter (and growing) who agree with my stance rather than yours. So I would be re-considering who is ultimately on the loosing side. Look at the climate change debate as an example of how public opinion can swing in a very short period of time.
Gregary Boyles
User avatar
boylesg
Curator
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Epping

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Mister Wisteria » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:27 pm

I'm sure Tropicgardener can speak for themselves Greg, however I don't know that its your place to tell anybody they are unreasonable just because they disagree with you. If they disagree with you so be it, that's enough, there is no more, we are all entitled to our opinion. Last I heard nobody put you in charge of this Forum or anything else for that matter but that's the way you are coming across. You appear to be a self appointed Enviro Inspector who's point of view is some what radical. Your words are certainly lost on me and will continue to be lost, you have a major creditabilty problem in my book.
Slip Slop & Slap and Don't Forget Your Hat.

Anti Skin Cancer Foundation.
User avatar
Mister Wisteria
Garden Wizard
 
Posts: 6061
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:10 pm
Location: Glen Waverley

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:31 pm

The Estate wrote:
Phil Hansen wrote:Reasoned argument is not something that has appeared in any of you dialogue to date. I will wait patiently.



are you a patience man :-?

Climate change sceptics still do not accept any evidence of global warming either. But none the less who now has the upper hand????

In the end it comes down to striking a broad emotional chord within the general public and that is what ends up swinging public opinion. An evidence based approach is like water off a ducks back for the general public as you two clearly demonstrate. The climate change debate was about a very clever and effective marketing strategy by Al Gore that found a broad emotional chord for that issue. The considerable valid evidence was little more than a side show.

I have been and continue to search for that broad emotional chord for the environmental weed issue. Or any emotional chord.
Gregary Boyles
User avatar
boylesg
Curator
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Epping

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:37 pm

Hello Greg,
Yes perhaps our banter may continue for some time, yet I feel we have all come to a silly stand-off. Please do not assume to think that because you may persist in your argument that I will eventually 'change my stance accordingly'! Obviously we come from different sets of experiences that have propogated our different thinking, it does not, however, mean that your relatively new discovery of indigenous plants suddenly overrides the collective experience and wisdom of this forum. Please take a step back from yourself and try to see the broader picture. We all do good work, not just you.
Phil Hansen
PHIL HANSEN

Dyslexics are teople poo
Phil Hansen
Curator
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: Castlemaine (Vic)

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:37 pm

belladonna wrote:I have never stated that all exotic plants should be pulled. I am really not that much of a weed "Hitler" and, at any rate, know full well that that could never be acheived, and would in fact be disasterous for Australia given that all our staple foods come from exotic plants. I am however an advocate of replacing as many of them as possible with native foods in response to the ongoing drought.

ok but what you are saying if I am reading it right is plants should not be allowed to be planted which will go on to become a problem.My question is this how can this be predicticted?You sound like there is a paranoid big brother with a hidden agenda trying to populate Australia with OMG exotic plants.
My favourite gardening quote is one from the Secret Garden by Francis Hodgson Burnett ....."If you look the right way the whole world is a garden". Surely there is room in my garden for something from elsewhere in the world.We are gardeners therefore we actually care about our surrounds and I take exception at you constantly lambasting people who may grow something banned else where.While something may be banned in a state and available for sale in another will mean bringing it into the state would be ILLEGAL and I am sure 99% of people would not break the law to grow such things.Can I suggest you go outside and take your latent anger out on some autumn pruning.

We already have a tool that can predict that with reasonable accuracy. The federal government already has a formal weed risk assessment process that can be applied to incoming plant species. All that is needed is legislation to allow this process to veto import of the plant species if they fail that assessment.

I don't know the precise name of this process but you could easily find out via enviroweeds, from one of the federal government employees who have involvement with it.
Gregary Boyles
User avatar
boylesg
Curator
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Epping

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:46 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:Hello Greg,
Yes perhaps our banter may continue for some time, yet I feel we have all come to a silly stand-off. Please do not assume to think that because you may persist in your argument that I will eventually 'change my stance accordingly'! Obviously we come from different sets of experiences that have propogated our different thinking, it does not, however, mean that your relatively new discovery of indigenous plants suddenly overrides the collective experience and wisdom of this forum. Please take a step back from yourself and try to see the broader picture. We all do good work, not just you.
Phil Hansen

I have little doubt that many of you do do good work and are very responsible. I know I wont be able to change the stance of those of you with opposing ideologies. That would be like convincing John Howard that he went to far with his Work Choices.
But that is not what this is about.

It is about changing the stance of those who have less 'fixed' ideologies. And making it clear that many government authorities, that have the power to compel you to change your stance, have a similar ideology to mine!
Gregary Boyles
User avatar
boylesg
Curator
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Epping

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:51 pm

Simply because a government authority has a certain ideology that meets yours means very little to the weeds you remove or the damage you may be doing to fragile and evolving weed-ecologies. I will say again, it is not the plants that are the problem, it is the prevailing conditions that allow exotic species to colonise damaged areas in an attempt to repair at a rate we can only hope to understand.

Goverments change. It is we who have the power!
PHIL HANSEN

Dyslexics are teople poo
Phil Hansen
Curator
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: Castlemaine (Vic)

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:05 pm

Phil Hansen wrote:Simply because a government authority has a certain ideology that meets yours means very little to the weeds you remove or the damage you may be doing to fragile and evolving weed-ecologies. I will say again, it is not the plants that are the problem, it is the prevailing conditions that allow exotic species to colonise damaged areas in an attempt to repair at a rate we can only hope to understand.

Goverments change. It is we who have the power!

I have not seen a backward step on environmental weeds by governments of any persuasion thus far. On the contrary weed related legislation has always been gradually strengthened. They are all smart enough to understand that there are major and growing economic implications associated with environmental weeds.

If the introduced invasive plants were not present in Australia then it would be our native flora that would be re-colonising damaged landscapes. No doubt there would be considerable changes in the mix of species but there would still be considerably more continuity with pre-colonisation flora than there actually is at present. Perhaps the current rate of fauna extinctions would have been less severe, to some extent.

Replacement of deep rooted native flora by shallow rooted exotic weeds has contributed significantly to dry land salinity in many areas.

Rabbit warrens are most often found among the considerable Boxthorn and Gorse thickets around Melbourne. Where there are rabbits there is errosion. Most likely if Boxthorn and Gorse was absent then there would be less rabbits around.

Foxes eat Boxthorn berries because you very often find the seeds in their scats. Foxes spread the Boxthorn and this allows rabbit populations to expand. If there was no Boxthorn then there would be one less considerable food source for foxes and probably less foxes.

Weeds are often part of the cause of other environmental problems.
Last edited by boylesg on Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gregary Boyles
User avatar
boylesg
Curator
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Epping

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Lin » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:10 pm

belladonna wrote:
ok but what you are saying if I am reading it right is plants should not be allowed to be planted which will go on to become a problem.My question is this how can this be predicticted?You sound like there is a paranoid big brother with a hidden agenda trying to populate Australia with OMG exotic plants.
My favourite gardening quote is one from the Secret Garden by Francis Hodgson Burnett ....."If you look the right way the whole world is a garden". Surely there is room in my garden for something from elsewhere in the world.We are gardeners therefore we actually care about our surrounds and I take exception at you constantly lambasting people who may grow something banned else where.While something may be banned in a state and available for sale in another will mean bringing it into the state would be ILLEGAL and I am sure 99% of people would not break the law to grow such things.Can I suggest you go outside and take your latent anger out on some autumn pruning.


I can see both sides of this argument. I am like most people on this forum, I love to grow things that are unusual and a bit different. I love deciduous trees with their autumn foliage, I love spring bulbs, my succulent collection, my geophytes and my cottage-garden perennials. As part of the course that I'm doing I have had to look at the area I live in, and although on our property we still have some of the trees and larger shrubs that were indigenous to the area, we have none of the indigenous annual and perennial flowers, the ground-covers and small shrubs. It saddens me to think that they are not here. On a previous property that we owned it was a joy to walk around in the spring and see the different wild-flowers coming up - fringed lillies, dianella, billy buttons, milkmaids, sundews, donkey orchids..... I think that boylesg made the point earlier that sometimes the area that the exotic plants invade are fragile eco-systems, and we risk losing the small remnants of native vegetation that still exist. And as he said it isn't just the larger trees and shrubs that are endangered, but the small annuals and perennials unable to compete against a more aggressive invader. I would hate to think that any of these plants would be permanently lost because of garden escapees.
User avatar
Lin
Garden Wizard
 
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: Bellarine Peninsula, Victoria

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby boylesg » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:15 pm

Lin wrote:
belladonna wrote:
ok but what you are saying if I am reading it right is plants should not be allowed to be planted which will go on to become a problem.My question is this how can this be predicticted?You sound like there is a paranoid big brother with a hidden agenda trying to populate Australia with OMG exotic plants.
My favourite gardening quote is one from the Secret Garden by Francis Hodgson Burnett ....."If you look the right way the whole world is a garden". Surely there is room in my garden for something from elsewhere in the world.We are gardeners therefore we actually care about our surrounds and I take exception at you constantly lambasting people who may grow something banned else where.While something may be banned in a state and available for sale in another will mean bringing it into the state would be ILLEGAL and I am sure 99% of people would not break the law to grow such things.Can I suggest you go outside and take your latent anger out on some autumn pruning.


I can see both sides of this argument. I am like most people on this forum, I love to grow things that are unusual and a bit different. I love deciduous trees with their autumn foliage, I love spring bulbs, my succulent collection, my geophytes and my cottage-garden perennials. As part of the course that I'm doing I have had to look at the area I live in, and although on our property we still have some of the trees and larger shrubs that were indigenous to the area, we have none of the indigenous annual and perennial flowers, the ground-covers and small shrubs. It saddens me to think that they are not here. On a previous property that we owned it was a joy to walk around in the spring and see the different wild-flowers coming up - fringed lillies, dianella, billy buttons, milkmaids, sundews, donkey orchids..... I think that boylesg made the point earlier that sometimes the area that the exotic plants invade are fragile eco-systems, and we risk losing the small remnants of native vegetation that still exist. And as he said it isn't just the larger trees and shrubs that are endangered, but the small annuals and perennials unable to compete against a more aggressive invader. I would hate to think that any of these plants would be permanently lost because of garden escapees.

My sentiments precisely!
Gregary Boyles
User avatar
boylesg
Curator
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Epping

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:20 pm

Greg, you are right! Governments have indeed increased the vigour of their legislative responses to exotic plant establishment (many of which were originally introduced and encouraged for farming purposes) and it simply because of the economic and emotional pull of the agricultural sector, even when some declare weeds are no longer a problem. No weed review has been conducted by the DPI since 1974!!!!!
To suggest that if there were no exotics then natives would colonise is pure stupidity! How can you possibly know that? Have you been able to somehow create an alternative time bubble? Absolute conjecture with no logic again!
If you would like to increase your understanding of dryland salinity, step out of the suburbs and observe ridiculous farming eneterprises in Central and Northern Victoria, and you will realise that where there is vast tracts of marginal land, having been cleared well before most exotic species colonised, there is not a single tree in either the discharge or recharge zones of many catchments. Salinity is a much deeper issue than just saying 'weeds, weeds, weeds'. I am beginning to think you are starting to stretch your arguments well beyond your knowledge.
PHIL HANSEN

Dyslexics are teople poo
Phil Hansen
Curator
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: Castlemaine (Vic)

Re: Nursery plant of the year in 1988

Postby Phil Hansen » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:36 pm

Check out this link.
http://www.holmgren.com.au/html/Writings/weeds.html
You might find it educational
PHIL HANSEN

Dyslexics are teople poo
Phil Hansen
Curator
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: Castlemaine (Vic)

PreviousNext

Return to Environmental weeds

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest